old belgian gun makers

Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Where did you find the Falla mark? have a great day! Colot Sorry! As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. this book online and pay it through Paypal. listed in alphabetical order. Quick Facts Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Hi Gerard and everyone! This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Thank you for Or any info? insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Quite old. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. Proof Collings Hadelin Thank you Jerry. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Bischop Pierre 1860-1870. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Arnold Mathias Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Sorry I can't be more helpful. To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. I recently decided to clean it up. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Bouquin Ad 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Seen . Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. JavaScript is disabled. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Home | Login | Register. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Can be without star and ring. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . or E.C. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 3 vols. production. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Any info will help. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. thanks for the help so far. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and After years of looking at and trying Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard Belgian Arms cie Chartier Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Broqua & Scholberg x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Dallas, Donald. Bury Jules. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Cap Joseph manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) to share our findings by this means of communication. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Bultot Jean Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Testing the gun Bookmark Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. Rifles & Musket Information. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. Wish I could be more helpful! 1840-1860. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. The "D.D. Ancion Jacques & Cie Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Colleye Henri Joseph Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. This printed As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", We have provided you Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. It was mandatory post-1924. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Very helpfull once again. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Marlin-Savage-Winchester However, there are more proof marks that I cannot find on the internet. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Closset J.M. Christophe Henri location, rather than a manufacturer. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Some older foreign Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Christophe & Montigny I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Clment Walter There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. These might cursive as well. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Collette Lopold 1840-1860. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. I'll test it very cautiously. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Counet Philippe I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Project Upland. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. that we have found on this subject. BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, . Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Most double shotguns represented here. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. and an eagles head. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Anonymes The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. OldGuns Newsletter . So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. carefully bound by threads. Bertrand Joseph Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over CLEMENT, J. Bernard Lambert it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Comblain Hubert Joseph It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Originally evolved by the armourers themselves, the system of proof was in nearly every arms-producing country taken over by the Municipality or the State, who imposed a series of stringent by-laws and penalties on any who sought to evade the prescribed tests. proof marks. Paypal, Order Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus?

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