MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. (Tie) B&T .45 2. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. Will it perform at greater distances? The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. No, but it was never designed to be. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. The Springfield Armory SAINT Line - The Armory Life Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Instead of being located at 3 oclock and 9 oclock, additional Keymod holes were located in a line upon the surface area that angled upward to the top rail (10 oclock and 2 oclock). The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Is the Rattler a precision instrument? I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. The Judge has been promoted! Springfield SAINT Edge PDW: New 5.56 Pistol Is Just 18.75 Inches Long What more can you ask for? Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. Awesome pistol by the way. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. I said you really loved shooting the orange . The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. New Springfield Saint. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. JavaScript is disabled. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. No problems except for the gas blowback. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. But you may have noticed complete uppers selling for as little as $400 during the last rounds of holiday sales and complete carbines selling for less than $700. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. They said nothing as short as the rattler. For targeting, I installed a set of Daniel Defenses fixed sights, as well as a Sig Sauer ROMEO3 reflex sight in a tall mount for co-witnessing. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). Now we've got Springfield's PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. You have entered an incorrect email address! The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. Privacy Policy. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. I really appreciate the input. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. One new winner* is announced every week! Thats as short as ARs get. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. The gas block is pinned in place. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. View Product. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Let's pick up there. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. We really liked the handguard. Sig M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Springfield XDM Elite 9mm! Is it better than Sig P320 and - YouTube We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). I mainly shoot at an indoor range. Substantial in some circumstances. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Putting it into action required lifting it from its horizontal position. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. Compare. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. So, I spread the wealth equally. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. So was the grip and handguard. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. This is a 100-yard rifle. Operation was very smooth and secure. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . For a full answer to that, were going to have to explore exactly what a PDW is, but before I do that, lets look at the specs of this gun. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. 300 AAC Blackout. Saw that email pop up today. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Filter SIG MCX . When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. Extraordinary accuracy. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Learn how your comment data is processed. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. All Rights Reserved. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. MCX-SPEAR . AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. Just Got this in my e-mail . S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". Love this gun . Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Springfield Saint Victor Rifles | Palmetto State Armory New! MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . JavaScript is disabled. Profits before the 2A. Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. and our For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. Cookie Notice ". To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849.
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